betacrash
8/9/2006 6:28:54 AM
I have a 95 camry wagon 4cyl
I am working with my crackpot neighbor to replace my timing belt. the old one was void of half of its teeth causing the car to tatally stall. Here is my issue. We got everything off and aligned according to the haynes book but it is still not firing right. It is barely running and it is very rough. We aligned the crankshaft to the "0" that is on the lower pulley cover and alined the cam shaft to Top Dead Center. The one issue i do notice is that the cam shaft seem to want to turn over on its own when we get it TDC. We just had to hold it with a wrench until we got the belt on. I have no idea what to do. Any help would be appreciated.
nodrogkam
8/9/2006 11:01:30 AM
i've never done this before but maybe it needs some tightening (tension isnt great enough)?
Joel_CA
8/14/2006 11:53:52 PM
Sounds like you don't have it timed right. Are you sure you have the cam at #1TDC? What method does the Haynes book tell you to use to determine that? The reason why i ask is that while at #1TDC, the camshaft is not under enough spring tension to cause it to rotate on it's own (as you describe). This leads me to believe that you might be off timing as far as the camshaft is concerned.
J
jasmtz531
8/15/2006 6:19:51 PM
^^
He's right. Your one tooth off at the most. Anymore and it wouldnt even run.
-Jason
lavalleemike
8/18/2006 1:59:02 PM
You can compinsate for a one tooth loss buy moving the distributor one way or another. Unless its a coil pack engine which i dont think the 95 4 cyl is. Also, you should check your tensioner pulley just as a precaution.
Joel_CA
8/20/2006 2:33:40 PM
quote:
You can compinsate for a one tooth loss buy moving the distributor one way or another.
This is completely wrong. Moving the distributor will affect ignition timing ONLY. The engine (cam/crank) timing needs still needs to be in sync.
J
lavalleemike
8/26/2006 5:46:12 PM
Joel dont say someones completly wrong changing you igniton timing will compinsate for one tooth because of the crank and cam shaft position sensors. the computer can compensate for 1 degree either way which translates into a little more than one tooth.
Joel_CA
8/27/2006 6:37:06 PM
I said it was completely wrong because it is. A timing belt being off affects the mechanical opening of the valves- it will will either open too soon or too late depending on the position of the Tbelt- affecting engine vacuum/compression. You cannot compensate for that through the distributor period.
J
lavalleemike
8/30/2006 3:17:56 PM
ok now i'm pissed off can you read moron. I'm a certified toyota tech. I promise you i'm right!
Joel_CA
8/30/2006 9:16:31 PM
quote:
ok now i'm pissed off can you read moron. I'm a certified toyota tech. I promise you i'm right!
Oh NOW you've convinced me! Toyota Certified.... WOW! You really put me in my place.
C'mon dudes, talk to the other techs in your shop- and you'll find out that you CANNOT compensate for the mechanical mistiming of the Tbelt- with a simple adjustment of the distributor. Mechanical cam to crank timing and ignition timing are 2 completely seperate issues whether its a Toyota, Honda, or any manufacturer. I'm gonna print this out so the guys at my shop can have a laugh.
J
jasmtz531
8/30/2006 9:39:08 PM
Adjusting the distributor only adjusts ignition timing. Which has nothing to do with timing when the valves open and close in relation with the position of the crank. Even only being 1 tooth off, it will run but only just. If you have the valves open too late or too early, it will throw off the compression of the engine, and adjusting the ignition timing has no effect what so ever. I may only be 17 and work on Chryslers, Dodges, and the occasional Jeep, but facts are facts. Valve timing and ignition timing are top completley seperate systems, and by adjusting one you cannot compensate for the other.
betacrash- Redo the timing belt install and crank over the engine by hand a few times and make sure that the timing marks line up. I dont know about everybody else. But I was taught that once you have the timing belt on and have made sure all of the marks line up, without putting anything back on (i.e. a/c compressor, alt, p/s pump) I start the car for only a brief second just to make sure it runs fine, so I dont have to redo the whole thing. Good luck.
-Jason
happyg
9/5/2006 4:15:11 AM
quote:
ORIGINAL: lavalleemike
ok now i'm pissed off can you read moron. I'm a certified toyota tech. I promise you i'm right!
what dealer do you work at? i hope i dont go there!
lavalleemike
9/6/2006 3:22:48 PM
Maybe i misread something some where but, i thought i read the timing marks were lined up during this whole discussion. Thus i thought fixing the igniton timing would make his car run.... Sorry to sound like a moron! Oops....
Joel_CA
9/7/2006 9:31:38 AM
quote:
ORIGINAL: lavalleemike
You can compinsate for a one tooth loss buy moving the distributor one way or another.
quote:
ORIGINAL: lavalleemike
the computer can compensate for 1 degree either way which translates into a little more than one tooth.
It looks to me that you read everything correctly and were just flat out WRONG! I'd have more respect for you had you just admitted it rather than attempt to back pedal like you just did....
J
michaelboyd
2/4/2008 12:24:50 PM
Lavalleemike...please don't respond to ANY question that I might have! LOL
betacrash
7/24/2008 5:03:53 AM
I dont even have this car any more but I thought I would follow up with the resolution (better late than never) to help anyone else that might have this problem.
the whole problem was that the Haynes manual showed the motor perfectly horizontal (the valve cover totally flat). of course the motor in the car is tilted to fit. so when i was lining up the gear I was pointing the arrow straight up and not straight to the center of the valve cover. lesson learned.
