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  #1  
Old 12-08-2007, 07:02 PM
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Default Battery draining out overnight

My car is a 1991 Camry GLI 2.0. I'm not particulary good with electronics so I'll need some help to fix a battery drain.

Questions:

[ul][*]What is a normal drain in a 1991 Camry?[*]How much drain are the different electrical components supposed to cause?[*]How do I continue troubleshooting after knowing behind which fuses the problem is located?[*]Where do I find the headlight relay?[*]How do I control the function of a relay with a multimeter?[*]In what way can the fact that I recently hade my starter checked and fixed relate to my newfound battery drain?
[/ul] Problem:

My battery is draining out overnight. Without anything left on.

Background/info:

I have just had my starter fixed by a local dealer. Now I've encountered the problem of my battery draining out too fast, just over one night. The battery is brand new, about a month old. The temperature here is about 0 degrees Celsius at night. I have not left the the lights or radio on. The problem started just after I had my started checked and fixed. As long as my battery is loaded the car starts every time at the first attempt.

The alternator is working fine - giving about 14.4 V with the engine running.
I don't think there's anything wrong with the battery either. I've loaded it full with a charger so it's able to recieve energy.

My conclusion was that I have a battery drain. So I did a test with a multimeter in the same way as described here: http://free-auto-repair-advice.blogs...attery%20drain

I first made sure that no light is litten in the glove box or the trunk.
With my multimeter in 10A-mode I got a 0,19A reading with no lighs on or doors open and the key in off-position. With the door open the value rises to 0,46A.

I started troubleshooting to find the source of the drain.
I disconnected my non-original cd-changer. No change in value on the multimeter.
I pulled out every fuse in the fusebox in the left kick panel (driver's side) one by one. No change.

I pulled every fuse in the fusebox located in the engine compartment. The only change I found was that the reading dropped 0,06A when I pulled out the 20A-fuse named "DOME".

I also pulled out the fuses in the fusible link box near the battery. Removal of the 40A-fuse named FL MAIN caused the meter to drop 0,07A.

In this wiring diagramme http://www.camrymanuals.com/manuals/90/90_EWD.pdf I found out that the 40A-fuse is connected to the headlight relay. And that the "DOME" fuse is connected to lots of things. (See pages 40-41 in the manual linked above)

I pulled the cables from the alternator as well - no change.

Summary:

With everything shut off, doors closed and the key not even in the keyhol, I have a constant 0,19A drain.

By pulling out fuses I've been able to make the drain smaller:
Constant drain 0,19A
dome-fuse -0,06A
Fl main fuse -0,07A
= 0,06A ----> 60mA = drain with both fuses removed.

So back to the questions again:

[ul][*]What is a normal drain in a 1991 Camry?[*]How much drain are the different electrical components supposed to cause?[*]How do I continue troubleshooting after knowing behind which fuses the problem is located?[*]Where do I find the headlight relay?[*]How do I control the function of a relay with a multimeter?[*]In what way can the fact that I recently hade my starter checked and fixed relate to my newfound battery drain?
[/ul]
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  #2  
Old 12-09-2007, 01:02 AM
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Default RE: Battery draining out overnight

Well, I'm not an electrical wizard either but I do mess with it daily on jets and my own vehicles.
I have one question for you.....you did'nt have this problem before the stater repair correct?
If that is true I would take the car back to whoever did the starter repair and tell them your 'new' problem.
The current draw test you did with your ammeter is right ontarget for most things except for one. A direct short from the +POS battery cable to ground. IE if your+pos battery cable is touching/ or shorted directly to the engine block. That will not show a high/higher reading on your meter.
Try following the +pos battery cable down to the starter. Look for anything unusual along the way like the cable rubbing against the block or a bracket. Nothing strange? Then I would suspect whatever was done to the starter.
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  #3  
Old 12-09-2007, 05:32 AM
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Default RE: Battery draining out overnight

Quote:
ORIGINAL: CAM RAY 97

Well, I'm not an electrical wizard either but I do mess with it daily on jets and my own vehicles.
I have one question for you.....you did'nt have this problem before the stater repair correct?
If that is true I would take the car back to whoever did the starter repair and tell them your 'new' problem.
The current draw test you did with your ammeter is right ontarget for most things except for one. A direct short from the +POS battery cable to ground. IE if your+pos battery cable is touching/ or shorted directly to the engine block. That will not show a high/higher reading on your meter.
Try following the +pos battery cable down to the starter. Look for anything unusual along the way like the cable rubbing against the block or a bracket. Nothing strange? Then I would suspect whatever was done to the starter.
[hr]
Thanks CAM RAY for a fast answer.

The battery has drained out maybe once or twice before the starter got fixed. In these occasions I had left the car standing for more than three days. Since the started got fixed the battery has been draining out overnight. If I charge it fully it can last for two nights but no longer. Logical conclusion (?) - the problem can be starter related.

The starter was controlled and mounted together by a professional. (IE, Not myself...)

I don't quite follow you here: "IE if your+pos battery cable is touching/ or shorted directly to the engine block. That will not show a high/higher reading on your meter."

I understand that the positive cable can cause a short if it is touching the engine block or other ground. But what do you mean by "That will not show a high/higher reading on your meter"?

As far I'm concerned a drain of 0,19A is a quite high reading?

I'll check if the positive cable is touching anything on its way to the starter.

But what about the other sources of drain? The ones related to the headlight relay and the fuse named "DOME"?
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  #4  
Old 12-09-2007, 11:33 AM
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Default RE: Battery draining out overnight

My apologies berg07 I may have confused you (and myself) more than I intended to. My thinking was that a direct short from the battery cable would be in parallel with the meter not in series.You have answered one question though, you have had a problem before the starter repair. Let me do some more research and see if I can help? more? I'll try and get back to you today. I'm 40mi west of Chicago,IL US, ice storms here today.
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  #5  
Old 12-09-2007, 12:00 PM
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Default RE: Battery draining out overnight

No worries mate. Take it easy in the storm.

I measure the drain by:
[ul][*]removing the minus(ground) cable terminal from the battery post.[*]connecting the multimeter between the battery post and the cable terminal. Every electrical equipment is off and the key is not in the keyhole.[/ul]

Yes my battery has drained once or twice before the starter repair, but not nearly as fast as now.After two nights standing the I measured the voltage of the battery since the car didn't start. There was no juice left in the battery -couldn't even get the interior lights on. The voltage was 0V (?). I managed to jump-start it though.

I charged the battery and when it had reached 12,2V, I measured the drain once again - 0,19A. I unhooked the smaller cable at the starter - no change in drain. Checked the drain inmy father's´89 Camry. Result = 0,01A. So I guess my constant 0,19A drainisn't that normal.
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  #6  
Old 12-10-2007, 01:16 PM
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Default RE: Battery draining out overnight

Have'nt given up yet! The headlight relay is under the hood next to the battery in J/B#2. See pg. 20 in the EWD manual. Is your car auto or manual shift? AWD or 2 wheel drive?
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  #7  
Old 12-10-2007, 03:03 PM
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Default RE: Battery draining out overnight

Yep, I found the relay, took it out - no change in drain.

But if I remove the 40A fuse in the fusible link the drain goes down with 0,06A making it 0,13A. According to the manual the 40A fuse is connected to the headlight relay.
I don't really understand why the same thing doesn't happen when I remove the headlight relay?

My car is a two-wheel drive manual shift sedan. I forgot to mention that I have some kind of fake alarm as well. I don't know who's installed it. The only thing the fake alarm is doing is keeping a small light blinking in the rear window. I disconnected the light but the drain was the same.

The thing that bothers me is that the problem with the battery draining out started after I had the starter repaired. What I haven't tried yet is to disconnect ALL the cables going to the starter. I disconnected the smaller one (the one with a clip-on), no change, the drain was still 0,19A. But even if the starter would be drawing current I still got 0,13A draining from somewhere else (read my first post).
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  #8  
Old 12-11-2007, 12:25 AM
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Default RE: Battery draining out overnight

Quote:
ORIGINAL: berg07

Yep, I found the relay, took it out - no change in drain.

But if I remove the 40A fuse in the fusible link the drain goes down with 0,06A making it 0,13A. According to the manual the 40A fuse is connected to the headlight relay.
I don't really understand why the same thing doesn't happen when I remove the headlight relay?

My car is a two-wheel drive manual shift sedan. I forgot to mention that I have some kind of fake alarm as well. I don't know who's installed it. The only thing the fake alarm is doing is keeping a small light blinking in the rear window. I disconnected the light but the drain was the same.

The thing that bothers me is that the problem with the battery draining out started after I had the starter repaired. What I haven't tried yet is to disconnect ALL the cables going to the starter. I disconnected the smaller one (the one with a clip-on), no change, the drain was still 0,19A. But even if the starter would be drawing current I still got 0,13A draining from somewhere else (read my first post).
Well the headlight relay would normaly be powered only if the headlight switch were on. So with the switch off the relay circuit is already dead. I agree about the starter problem. My first thought was something the dealer did. Or disturbing some other wires in the engine compartment. I've been looking over the DOME circuits. There's an ECT circuit (electronic trans control) but that only applies to auto shifts. Do you have a power antenna or auto-off for the lights? There's a relay for the auto lights off.
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  #9  
Old 12-11-2007, 11:33 AM
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Default RE: Battery draining out overnight

Quote:
Well the headlight relay would normaly be powered only if the headlight switch were on. So with the switch off the relay circuit is already dead. I agree about the starter problem. My first thought was something the dealer did. Or disturbing some other wires in the engine compartment. I've been looking over the DOME circuits. There's an ECT circuit (electronic trans control) but that only applies to auto shifts. Do you have a power antenna or auto-off for the lights? There's a relay for the auto lights off.
I don't have a power antenna. My manually driven antenna is located on the driver's side near the roof.

How does the auto lights off-function work? Haven't heard of that before, but I doubt that my car has it. If it would have it, where can I find the relay?

Like I said earlier:
By pulling out fuses I've been able to locate some of the drain:
Constant drain 0,19A
dome-fuse -0,06A
Fl main fuse -0,07A
= 0,06A ----> 60mA = drain with both fuses removed.

The FI main fuse is connected with the headlight relay according to the wiring diagramme http://www.camrymanuals.com/manuals/90/90_EWD.pdf and the headlights are working properly. How do I troubleshoot this circuit further?

There's lots of things connected to the 20A DOME-fuse so it's a bit tricky to find the cause of the drain:
Integration Relay
Map Light, Door Key Cylinder Light, Door Courtesy Light, Rear Interior Light, Ignition Key Cylinder
Light, Interior Light, Vanity Light, Door Warning Light, Luggage Compartment Light
ECT ECU (3S–FE)
Clock
Antenna Motor
Radio and Tape Player

My worries are that even if there's a drain that is related to the repaired starter, I've still got the 0,13A drain behind the 20A and the 40A fuses to deal with.

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  #10  
Old 12-11-2007, 07:32 PM
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Default RE: Battery draining out overnight

Quote:
ORIGINAL: berg07


I don't have a power antenna. My manually driven antenna is located on the driver's side near the roof.

How does the auto lights off-function work? Haven't heard of that before, but I doubt that my car has it. If it would have it, where can I find the relay?

Like I said earlier:
By pulling out fuses I've been able to locate some of the drain:
Constant drain 0,19A
dome-fuse -0,06A
Fl main fuse -0,07A
= 0,06A ----> 60mA = drain with both fuses removed.

The FI main fuse is connected with the headlight relay according to the wiring diagramme http://www.camrymanuals.com/manuals/90/90_EWD.pdf and the headlights are working properly. How do I troubleshoot this circuit further?

There's lots of things connected to the 20A DOME-fuse so it's a bit tricky to find the cause of the drain:
Integration Relay
Map Light, Door Key Cylinder Light, Door Courtesy Light, Rear Interior Light, Ignition Key Cylinder
Light, Interior Light, Vanity Light, Door Warning Light, Luggage Compartment Light
ECT ECU (3S–FE)
Clock
Antenna Motor
Radio and Tape Player

My worries are that even if there's a drain that is related to the repaired starter, I've still got the 0,13A drain behind the 20A and the 40A fuses to deal with.

I agree with your worries. This is proving to be quite a challenge.
I was looking for things to eliminate or look into further.
No power antenna....we can eliminate that.
The auto lights off is controlled by the Integration Relay, behind left kick panel. See pg 17 EWD. But sounds like you don't have it so I think we can eliminate that.
Besides powering the 20a Dome circuit, the 40a FL also powers the 15a Hazzard/Horn circuit, the 15a EFI circuit. See pg 44 EWD.
Something that puzzles me is....when looking at the fuse or power source pages 40 & 41 EWD the Radio and Clock are listed under more than one fuse. See Dome, Tail, Radio, and Cig. ???
I think I would unplug the radio from the car and check current drain. Unplug clock and also headlight switch, check drain. After that I don't know.
I have also been looking in the Body Electrical Manual, though similar to EWD.
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Old 12-11-2007, 07:32 PM
 
 
 
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