I took my '93 Toyota Camry (manual 5 speed) to the shop to have estimate on getting the rotors & brake pads, and front axles replaced (the boots had cracks & I was told it would be cheaper to just replace the axles), and the a/c fixed (slow leak?)

After getting the estimate, I wanted to compare to previous estimates I had gotten at other times, places. The owner THEN said, there was a charge for the estimate if I didn't have the work done there. They came highly recommended & I hadn't read the sign on the wall that says they have to tell the customer BEFOREhand, if there will be a charge for the estimate -- so I decided to just have them do the work.

A day or two later, the shop owner called and said when they test drove my car, the clutch was making an odd noise. He said I needed a new one. I replied that the clutch/gear shifting was fine before I left it there. He said that he would personally check it out to see what specifically was wrong.

A week went by & I didn't hear from him. Called today and he again said it was noisy, I said it had been fine. He asked, could I come by and listen to it.

When I arrived, there was a new story about how it happened. He said someone had gone out to the car the day after they made the agreed repairs. The clutch went to the floor, he said. He thought it was the pressure plate. He told me he couldn't tell what the problem was until he took the clutch out and that to do that he would have to take out the transmission. If it was the pressure plate, he said I'd have to pay for the repair. I wanted an estimate. He kept saying he couldn't tell till he found out what was wrong. I asked again for a worst case amount. $1000.

I asked for the key to my car so I could check it out. The car was in first gear! I put the clutch in. The clutch pedal was in the normal position and tension was normal. With the clutch pedal fully depressed, I put in the key and turned on the ignition, the engine sounded weird, idled rough.

I shifted to neutral, let up on the clutch. Engine went back to normal.
Put the clutch in all the way, tried to shift back into first. Not happening. Tried all the gears -- no budging.

I started transferring my stuff from the Camry to the car I came in.

The mechanic came out. Wanted to know what he could do to help. I told him that shifting gears was smooth, a joy, before I brought the car in. He said he had driven my car and the shifting was great.

I said he'd ruined my car. I wanted it fixed. He said the car had been on the lift and there was a bang. He also thought it was the pressure plate. He said they'd had to push my car out backwards to where it was.

Which makes no sense. Why would it be in 1st gear (or any gear) on the lift? Why would they have it in first gear when pushing it backwards?

The mechanic also thought it was the pressure plate and said they'd fix it for the cost of the part. I asked how much. He consulted with the owner and said $200. He seemed surprised when I said I'd have to think about it. (They did NOT give me a written estimate.)

What have they done to my car? Does it sound like a pressure plate?
What should I do? Is it plausible that they aren't at fault, that something 'just broke' that was working fine before? Should I be worried about the engine now too?

Thanks.

 

The clutch system is hydraulic operated.

Pressing on the clutch pedal forces fluid from the clutch master cylinder, through a hose to the clutch slave cylinder. This forces a piston rod in the slave cylinder to move out, which moves a fork (a lever), which operates the clutch pressure plate.

You should be able to watch the slave cylinder piston rod move as someone presses on the clutch pedal.

If the clutch pedal ever goes to the flow. If possible with the pedal still on the floor determine if the rod is extended. Meaning the hydraulic system may be working but the clutch pressure plate has a problem and there is no resistance to the pedal pressure.

Most stick shift car drivers will leave the trans in first gear if the car is parked. This it lowest gear which means it is the most effective gear to prevent the car from moving when the engine if off.

A pedal going to the floor could also be a bad clutch master cylinder. This is more common then a bad clutch pressure plate. However if a failed master cylinder the clutch plate will not work. You will need force the gear shifter to engage a gear.

An issue with idle speed changing when the clutch is pushed in may mean a clutch problem. With the clutch pedal 9 is down (assuming the hydraulics is OK), the engine load should decrease. The rough speed may mean the load is increasing.

You might consider why the shop owner has offered to reduce the cost of the proposed investigation from $1000 to $200. $200 is a steal. Either they know they did something, are being generous or ?

Ina normal axle replacement, the clutch should not be affected. However things to just break.

 

Thanks for the explanation of how a clutch works. It was helpful for my understanding.

Is it possible to see the slave cylinder piston rod move without removing anything from the car? Do you have to be under the car?

Yes, I also leave the car in first (& cut the wheels to hit the curb) whenever I park on an incline -- but I was more concerned about figuring out the truthfulness or lack thereof of what I'm being told. They've given me 3 different stories so far & that doesn't help me believe them that it was 'just one of those things, an unfortunate coincidence'. (It's good to know that the clutch isn't usually in the line of fire when an axle is replaced.)

So, for evaluating the accuracy of one explanation: how could my car wind up in a parking space -- back end in first, in first gear? I was told that "after the bang" they had to push it backwards out of the bay. This isn't possible with it in 1st gear, is it? Does this mean they must have taken it out of first, moved it and then forced the gear shifter to engage the first gear? How complicated is that and why would anyone go through all that?

I don't know what the manager meant / was talking about when he said the 'clutch went to the floor'. When I tried it, the clutch pedal was perfectly normal. The gear lever, after easily moving out of first to neutral, was frozen -- with only a very small range of motion, less range than usual in neutral, if I recall correctly. (I was rather upset.)

Could this problem be caused by someone accidentally shifting into reverse instead of 4th gear (the 'clutch noise' they claimed to have heard when they were test driving my car?) I don't know who drove it nor how much experience they have driving a 5 speed.

Is $200 a reasonable part price for a pressure plate?

Then there is the question of what if it's not the pressure plate -- not only did I not get a written agreement for the $200, nothing was even said about if this isn't the problem. Any suggestions on how to deal with the situation I find myself in?

If it turns out to be the clutch master cylinder - would this be any easier to replace? How would the part prices compare: clutch master cylinder v. pressure plate.

Is there anything else anyone can think of that might cause this problem?

Thanks.

 

If all is working OK, the rod is not going to move on its own. The rod moves the lever which moves the clutch pressure plate. To move the lever/clutch takes a GREAT deal of force! You would be hard pressed moving the lever by hand.

Even with a bad pressure plate and even one that does not allow the transmission to disengage you can still shift gears. Doing so with the engine off would be best to avoid problems with gear grinding. However if skilled enough one can do this reasonable well if the car is moving.

I can only speculate that the trans was shifted to neutral to pushed, then shifted to 1st when parked. This is very possible.

Same with speculating on the bang. It not like the pressure plate or clutch plate is going to explode when the car is parked and engine off. Still the clutch plate has springs, the pressure plate a spring diaphragm. I would think if there was going to be a bang this would be with the engine on, engaging the clutch or driving the car.

If the car was moving and someone tried to go from 3rd to reverse and actually managed to get the trans into reverse. The trans would be damaged not the clutch.

You can buy a pressure plate for less then $200, shop sites like Rockauto.com for prices.

The issue is the time and thus labor expense of removing the trans. This is a expensive job if having a shop to it due to the time required. That's why $200 to replace the pressure plate is a steal.

If you do have the shop do this, also inquire about replacing the clutch plate and throw out bearing at the same time. Plus having the flywheel face refinished. The clutch plate tends to form groves in the face of the flywheel, refinishing allows maximum clutch face contact.

The issue is once again, taking the trans out is time consuming. Once out, access to not only the pressure plate but clutch plate and throw out bearing is very easy. As such most people just replace all these parts at one time.

The master cylinder is MUCH easier and cheaper to replace. The trans need not be removed. If you open the hood of the car and look at the drivers side of the firewall. You should see an part having a plastic reservoir filled with liquid and ONE hose/line attached to it. This is the clutch master cylinder.

Take note there is also a brake master cylinder next to it which would have more then one steel line attached.

I sent a private message with some info. I suggest you review this then post back with your thoughts.

 

When I first wrote, I was ignorant and in despair. Thanks to your knowledge, help and advice, things got turned around. Got my car back yesterday and it's working great.

Appreciate your being there!

 

Got your PM, thanks.

Glad you are enjoying the car.