Recent General Quality Issues??
 

I've seen in several posts here & elsewhere on the internet, as well as in the automotive press, that there seem to be quality issues with recent year models of the Camry. Most of what I've seen seems to revolve around rattles/squeaks and/or misaligned interior pieces and auto trans performance. To read many articles, the bloom is off the rose.

I'm seriously considering an '09 XLE 4-cyl, but am concerned. Does anyone know if Toyota has or will be addressing these issues? Should these concerns be used as a "bargaining chip" in dealing with the dealer?

Thanks! :)

RE: Recent General Quality Issues??
 

Not much info out there on the 2009 to make an opinion on quality issues.

Toyota has been attempting to produce as MANY cars as possible and as a result let quality dip. They appear to be addressing the issues as best they can. Often owner frustrations seem to come down to dealer warranty support on these complaints which ranges from excellant to poor, to go away.

Not sure if the trans shift issue was ever resolved on the 2006ish cars.

Remember too Toyota is making record number of cars and not all of them have issues.

Have never heard of anyone using these quality issues to lower sticker price on a new Camry. Guessing the dealer would pass on this tactic if your outright in your wanting a lower price. After all, you asking them to admit the Camry has quality issues.

Perhaps if said it as a concern, as in your just unsure of the asking price given what you have read about quality issues . . . Honda's don't seem to have these issues . . . . .

The dealer come back though may be to convince you to buy an extended warranty.

Price seems to come down to supply and demand, and the dealers need to move cars.

Suggest you review sites like www.toyotanation.com for specific problems on the 2006-8 Camry.

RE: Recent General Quality Issues??
 

Thanks for the advice, but dear God, no! Not Toyotanation!! I posted a similar thing there, and was flamed and piled on by a bunch of defensive types. I'm simply probing for info here, but you'd think those folks thought I'd suggested the head of Toyota was Lucifer himself!

However, things like rattles & squeaks concern me more than mechanical issues, because I've NEVER had a dealer who can isolate/resolve those kinds of problems, with any type of car.

Trying to make as many cars as possible, at possible expense of overal quality, wouldn't be something I'd expect Toyota, or any Japanese maker, to do. That seems different from the way the Japanese are viewed to do business by us Westerners, but who knows?

Honda, on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. I really, really dislike the new Accord's looks both inside & out. They tend to be a bit noisier and slightly rougher-riding as well, which I don't want. Guess I'll take my chances. It just seems that until recently, one would never have even dreamed of saying such a thing regarding buying a Camry.

RE: Recent General Quality Issues??
 

I may have read your post at Toyotanation, I post there often.

There are a few die hard "Toyota can do no wrong" members at Toyotanation, I assume they are young and naive. Still most members have balanced approach to Toyota and their products.

It appears Toyota management has adopted many of American business ways, one is gaining market share at any cost. A few others are: forgetting about the customer-as is blowing them off on warranty complaints, quality and poor dealer customer service.

The above issues and perhaps more have contributed to what is now a quality problem and unhappy customers. This has been coming for a LONG time, Toyota has been coasting on their past reputation. That is until all those recalls, etc hit the news.

Toyota factory workers in the US were so PO'D at management and apparently wage issues they were going on strike, not what sure what happened.

No, this is not indicative of the Japan way of business, being thinking long term, keeping the customer happy and taking care of the worker (although even in Japan the last part has changed).

Still Japan has their own problems, as does China. They must start seeing those $$ signs become infected with money madness.

I often wonder how companies who have been building the same decent product for years can seem to forget how to build them any more. I really think this newer style management never learns from their past mistakes, the only issue that matters is tomorrow and sales.

Perhaps this is too much of the MBA business school if thinking. All the older generation that worked their way up from the bottom to upper management have retired or been driven off. The new kids are in charge.

I suggest going back to Toyotanation and just reading posts for Camry, say years 2005 and up. Most people posting are doing so because they have a problem. By reading these you can get a handle on how things are going with the car, Toyota, Toyota dealership, customer service, etc.

I am not sure if I would by a new Toyota now. Most likey would shop for one a few years older and in the process save a few dollars. At least the issues with the year of car would be known.

RE: Recent General Quality Issues??
 

Wow. Powerful stuff. What a shame, when one particular philosophy created superior products and customer loyalty, to kick that to the curb in search of more $$.

I'm afraid you're proabably right about it being more MBA business school thinking. Nobody seems to subscribe to the "make a better mousetrap" idea any more. So sad. Now, it's all about the bottom line, period.

A superior product, with satisfied customers, will pay the bills just fine. Why tinker?

RE: Recent General Quality Issues??
 

The issues with the new model are seemingly being attended to. The trans shift issue is due to the new WS Trans fluid used in the new transmissions. The fluid was designed to allow tighter tolerances. The fluid has to be at an exact level and the ECT has to try to adapt to thefluctuations. There have been ECT calibrations for almost every model using this new fluid. Its not an issue of manufacturing so much as R&D. Each year willbe better the last.

The interior squeaks/rattles are being attended to as fast as possible. New design clips and foam padding are being warranteed on 06-08 models and put on 09 models at the factory.

RE: Recent General Quality Issues??
 

Do you have a website or other info on the WS fluid level issue, no doubt many owners would want to read this!

It would have been better if Toyota was a little more consistent and up front with their customer complaints at the dealer level. A lot of frustrated newer car owners were expecting the same Toyota quality in their new car as their old one.

RE: Recent General Quality Issues??
 

I dontknow of any websites. This is just what i know from working on them. I'm a tech at Toyota of Greenville in SC. I work on my own cars so i dont know what the customers get told.The only explaination i can offer is that the service writers are so busy that they really dont have the time to explain the exact inner workings of the transmission and ect control, and how fluidic expansion affects both. Can you imagine trying to go through that advanced process withcustomersthat most of the time dont even know why they should rotate their tires?

RE: Recent General Quality Issues??
 

Yes, true for customers who only know where to fill the gas tank. Still, many auto-educated owners stated they get the brush off from the dealer when asked what is going on. Most would appreciate knowing what the issue was and once known would most likely drop the issue, stop asking at ever opportunity and stop complaining.

A better explanation to those owners who really want to understand would be a win/win for both the owner (who now thinks there concerns are recognized and understands the problem) and Toyota (who would be getting less bad press by frustrated owners).

RE: Recent General Quality Issues??
 

Thats very true. Unfortunately the service writers dont always understand either. The customers that are auto-educated are so outnumbered by the others that service writers have a tendancyto pass them over thinkingthey dont know anything. I think the responsibility then falls on the customer to keep asking until they get a proper explanation even if it requires getting the technician to go over it with them. Unfortunately most of these customers arent vocal about wanting to know whats going on until they get onto a public forum. By that point it just comes out as overgeneralized complaining about the whole company.

RE: Recent General Quality Issues??
 

Some info straight from Toyota Technical Information Service

􀀀

flushing or changing during the life of the vehicle.

􀀀

􀀀

or substitutes may result in shift concerns and damage to the internal

transmission components.

􀀀

􀀀

atmosphere, ATF-WS may absorb moisture and potentially cause shift concerns if

used in operation.

􀀀

􀀀

only

􀀀

drained from the overflow plug should be discarded following proper local

regulations and never reused. Failure to do so could result in shift concerns and

damage to the internal transmission components.

RE: Recent General Quality Issues??
 

Well, I am an educated consumer but my multitudinous questions *never* get properly answered. I'm given a quick answer that often makes NO sense and I'm usually treated like an idiot, because I'm a woman. Very, very, very frustrating. Nothing would please me more than a thorough and detailed explanation when I'm having my car serviced.

As to the original question, I have a 2003 Toyota Camry LE and that car spent 15 days in the shop during its first year, all for squeaks and noises and rattles and such. They found many pieces were either missing or not tightented. Cables were flopping around in the trunk area because TWO clips had never been installed. A rear speaker rattled because the bolts on its underside had never been tightened. It was the rattliest car I ever drove - and I bought it BRAND new in 2003. Finally, the dealer took the car for 8 days and disassembled most of the interior and repaired all the rattles and other troubles. When they returned the car to me after the 8-day extravaganza, there were still rattles in the dash but they explained that fixing those would take more time and probably CREATE more rattles than it resolved.

Very disappointing!

Rose Thornton

RE: Recent General Quality Issues??
 

I drive a 96 Camry and the build quality is great, however I have noticed from driving the newer models 03-06 that the transmission has a much better feel than the older cars, the shifts are smoother, the TCU feels more confident in it's shift points, and the stick feels like it came from a Lexus. I can't really comment on the interior assembly quality because thats something you have to really own the car to get a good feel for, however the quality of the materials used has increased and the new cars have a more luxurious feel to the interior, although the older models had a much more durable quality to the interior. The design of how the interior panels fit together has made assembly, and disassembly much faster and easier, with less risk of damaging the panels, for example the rear seat side cushions no longer have to be removed to take out the rear deck.

For rosethornil, I am sorry for your dissatisfaction in having your car serviced, I think that you are getting short answers not because you are a woman, but because the service techs have to deal with a very large number of people with varying degrees of understanding of the mechanical workings of the cars they drive. Sometimes you can tell someone what is wrong with their car, sometimes you have to walk them through what isn't working, and what it normally does, and sometimes you just don't know how to explain it to them, most often because it is a small part of a larger system of parts and would take quite a long explanation to get to why it isn't doing what it should. If you can't get your service shop to show you the problem, I can only suggest that you try to learn on your own about your car, you don't need to be able to diagnose problems or know the specifications for your car, but if you pick up a service manual (Haynes , Chilton ect) at a local parts store you will be able to ask your service shop what parts are being replaced and see a picture of the part and read where on the car it is. or as an alternative you could post your questions on this forum and I'm sure you would get some better answers, also in my personal opinion the dealer that told you that fixing the rattles in the dash wasn't worth it, wasn't lying. Dash work is not fun and can cause the dash panels to not fit as tight as before they were removed, although Toyota makes it much, much easier than other manufactures do (looking at you GM!).

RE: Recent General Quality Issues??
 

Concur with Sexiewasd, the best approach and perhaps defense is getting up to speed on the basics of how cars operate and maybe a little basic repair. There are many auto sites like this one that can help someone with car issues and pass on info on specific model problems and repairs.

It is not just gender and Toyota dealers. Some but not all repair outlets are not very forth coming and even take advantage of a patron’s lack of knowledge.

A few outlets however have picked up not treating the customer as an "idiot" and the result is increased sales and service work.

RE: Recent General Quality Issues??
 

Well, thanks for the comments on getting "up to speed" but the fact is, I took two years of auto tech at an accreditedvocational school (a few years ago!) and graduated with straight A's, much to the astonishment of the testosterone-laden young menwho were in the class with me. That's the problem. One look at a woman (or even a woman's NAME online) and the immediate presumption is that she doesn't know anything about cars, but needs to run out and buy a book with lots of pretty pictures so she can learn a little something all those "thing-a-mabobbers" under the car's hood and maybe - just maybe - learn totalk quasi-intelligently about her vehicle with a nice, smart man.

Most service writers seem to know less about cars than I do and that's alsoa large part of the problem.

Sigh.

Rose in Virginia

RE: Recent General Quality Issues??
 

"Most service writers seem to know less about cars than I do and that's alsoa large part of the problem."

I totally agree with you there. Not a day goes by where i dont have to explain some part of a car to a service writer.

Btw, why are you taking your car to a dealer if you have all your training and knowledge?

RE: Recent General Quality Issues??
 

When writing my last post I was not being gender specific in my statements. The issue was customers end up being fleeced by repair shops and car dealers and there is no shortage of businesses that fail to respond to customers concerns or talk down to them.

And that a little education may help, although many businesses can be extremely over baring if given a chance.

Some businesses do not talk down to the customer and appreciate their patronage. They are out there, but difficult to find.

Poor customer service is not limited to cars or gender, it has migrated into most aspects of business.

RE: Recent General Quality Issues??
 

Toyomoho, that's a VERY good point. Last month, I called United Airlines in the middle of a workday and found myself talking to someone in India. United Airlines routes their calls to India!!I asked a couple questions about the type of jet I was buying a ticket on and the person was unable to answer that question. (I don't like tiny prop planes and the customer service clerk couldn't tell me if it was a jet or a prop plane.)

Customer service seems to be at an all time low - sadly.

Rose

RE: Recent General Quality Issues??
 

I am sorry if I offended you, I did assume that you knew less about your car than you do, because 80% of the people on the road have absolutely no clue how their car gets them to work. You already have done your part by understanding your car. I can only suggest that you either get your car repaired somewhere that does have better customer service, or keep pushing for more detailed answers and let them know that their answers aren't good enough. Who knows they might change with enough pressure.