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1996 Camry (fuel issue?)

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  #1  
Old 05-13-2017, 02:27 PM
rbuswell's Avatar
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Default 1996 Camry (fuel issue?)

This is a high mileage (240k+ miles) 4 cylinder LE auto. It has been a great car but it is old enough now to start having problems. Here are the symptoms:

The car was running fine but then suddenly acted like it was starving for fuel (wife driving). She got it home then went out later to go somewhere else and it started very briefly then died. Then it wouldn't start at all. Sounds like fuel starvation, right? I've checked all the usual things; plenty of fuel, fuses and relays OK, etc. I looked at the step whereby you jump B+ and P in the diagnosis port but it didn't look like there was even a connector on the P side. I took out the rear seat, checked the pump and, when I put power to it, I couldn't hear it start up so I thought I found the problem. I ordered a pump which should arrive today.

I decided to take everything apart to get it ready for the new pump. It appears that the manual wasn't giving me the right information on which pins power the pump because the pump ran fine when I clipped leads directly to the pump on the bench. I also traced the wires and clipped power to the leads the manual should have shown, but didn't. Still seemed to power up fine.

I decided to work backwards from there. I put the negative terminal back on the battery, turned the key to ON and checked power at the two leads in the fuel pump harness that would power the pump. It showed negligible voltage. The manual didn't say what it should be but I assume that, if it powers the pump, it should have some decent volts. Any feed back on what it should be reading there?

Any other ideas? Thanks for your help, guys.
 
  #2  
Old 05-13-2017, 05:32 PM
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Wiring is supposed to be blue/black (pump) and white/black (ground).

The pump will only be powered if the engine is running or starter engaged.

Did you jump the pump and try to start engine? Or injected fuel into the throttle body?

How did the engine idle after the engine operational problem started? Did the engine want to die, rough, etc?

Have you checked for ign spark?

Was the car fueled prior to the engine issues?

If you still thinks it fuel, might check fuel pressure which requires a banjo fitting for
gauge installation.

Does this engine still have a distributor? A distributor with external cam or crank pickup or no distributor at all?
 
  #3  
Old 05-14-2017, 07:34 AM
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Default Good ideas

Originally Posted by toyomoho
Wiring is supposed to be blue/black (pump) and white/black (ground). The wiring was actually green and black. I didn't know that until I had it all apart and bench tested it.

The pump will only be powered if the engine is running or starter engaged. Someone on Toyota Nation Forum said the same thing. This presents an obvious Catch-22 for testing purposes. If you can't test for power to the pump unless the engine is running, how do you test it if the engine doesn't start. I suppose I could have someone crank the starter while I test it. I should probably get the pump back in first. As I mentioned, there isn't any connector in the P slot of the diagnosis port so there doesn't appear to be a way to jump it.

Did you jump the pump and try to start engine? Or injected fuel into the throttle body? Didn't try either of those yet. I have now received the new pump and bought a new tank gasket so I can put it together this morning.

How did the engine idle after the engine operational problem started? Did the engine want to die, rough, etc? My wife was driving when it started to act up and now the car won't start. She said it seemed to not be getting any gas but didn't really note rough running. That was when I deduced it might be fuel starvation.

Have you checked for ign spark? I will do that when I get the pump back in. I think I have one of those inline testers.

Was the car fueled prior to the engine issues? Not immediately before but it has about 3/4 of a tank.

If you still thinks it fuel, might check fuel pressure which requires a banjo fitting for gauge installation. My hope was to not need to take it apart to get a gauge on it. That appears to be a pretty big job. I've had it all apart to remove the injectors for cleaning and calibration about a year ago. Major pain. That will be a step on my list when the new pump is in and it doesn't start or run. A fellow on the Toyota Nation Forum had a procedure for installing a Schrader Valve at the fuel filter that seemed intriguing. DIY - 5S-FE Fuel Schrader Valve Retrofit - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums


Does this engine still have a distributor? A distributor with external cam or crank pickup or no distributor at all? It does still have an electronic distributor.
For the purposes of comparing note, this is the thread I have going on Toyota Nation Forum: 1996 Camry (fuel issue?) - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
 
  #4  
Old 05-14-2017, 11:17 AM
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Yes, Toyota can have different wire colors then stated in their manual.

You can check if there is a Circuit Opening Relay (controls fuel pump) inside the large long/narrow fuse/relay box in the engine compartment. Then jump terminals 3 and 5 of the plug. To find these terminals, check the relay to determine what two terminals are for the relay switch.

A problem IAC or EGR valve can cause idle/starting issues. Thus the question about if engine would idle or not.

For fuel pressure. An additional banjo fitting with pressure gauge is installed at the engine fuel filter can.

What do you mean by electronic distributor. Over a few years Toyota gradually replaced the distributor by adding a remote crank and cam sensor. Then eventually eliminating the distributor all together.
But they didn't do this all at once.

A failing crank/cam sensor or pickup coil can cause issues.

How long did your wife drive the car? Perhaps long enough to set a trouble code. However fuel pressure is not monitored outside of fuel air/fuel mixture (lean/rich) codes.
 
  #5  
Old 05-14-2017, 03:20 PM
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Default Eureka!

Originally Posted by toyomoho
Yes, Toyota can have different wire colors then stated in their manual.

You can check if there is a Circuit Opening Relay (controls fuel pump) inside the large long/narrow fuse/relay box in the engine compartment. Then jump terminals 3 and 5 of the plug. To find these terminals, check the relay to determine what two terminals are for the relay switch.

A problem IAC or EGR valve can cause idle/starting issues. Thus the question about if engine would idle or not.

For fuel pressure. An additional banjo fitting with pressure gauge is installed at the engine fuel filter can.

What do you mean by electronic distributor. Over a few years Toyota gradually replaced the distributor by adding a remote crank and cam sensor. Then eventually eliminating the distributor all together.
But they didn't do this all at once.

A failing crank/cam sensor or pickup coil can cause issues.

How long did your wife drive the car? Perhaps long enough to set a trouble code. However fuel pressure is not monitored outside of fuel air/fuel mixture (lean/rich) codes.
Thanks so much for all your help! Yes, it did turn out to be the fuel pump. When I replaced it, the car started and ran perfectly.

A couple hints I discovered:
  • I ran two probes made from paper clips into the appropriate leads in the fuel pump harness and confirmed that it was getting voltage by clipping the multi-meter leads to the paper clip leads, fishing the meter to the front seat and cranking the starter. This gave me the confidence that the pump may have been sporadic at the least. I didn't want to put a brand new pump in if the problem was no power to the pump. I was warned that it is common for a pump to run for awhile after it first fails.
  • I bought the OE Denso pump on Amazon Prime for $70 plus tax. The other sources I found were a lot more money (up to $60 more) and weren't Denso OE. I saw several threads about how other pumps will work but you have to adapt the harness which is a hassle. The Denso part fits perfectly.
  • Buy the fuel pump tank gasket also from Amazon. I hoped that the original one would still be good but it was in very bad shape. I had to buy one from Advance Auto in order to finish the job for about $10 more that the same part on Amazon.
 
  #6  
Old 05-14-2017, 07:11 PM
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Great job!

Denso parts are what I use as they are quality and fit. The company is part of the Toyota group. It sells parts to Toyota who still owns about 25%.

Good point about obtaining a new pump gasket.

Thanks for posting back with the fix.
 
  #7  
Old 05-15-2017, 07:08 AM
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Default Denso is the way to go

Originally Posted by toyomoho
Great job!

Denso parts are what I use as they are quality and fit. The company is part of the Toyota group. It sells parts to Toyota who still owns about 25%.

Good point about obtaining a new pump gasket.

Thanks for posting back with the fix.
The Denso stuff is clearly built to last (245k miles on the original pump). It was a double-score to get OE quality at the lowest price out there.
 
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