2009 Camry No Compression
 

I have a 2009 Camry with about 80,000 miles. I've always did all maintenance, oil changes on time, fluid checks regularly, repairs when needed, etc... There has been no signs of any problems.

Today my family and I get ready to leave for my wifes birthday dinner. It is my wifes birthday today. I turned the key and it turned over normal until at the point that it starts. The starter started turning that fast kinda high pitched sound one makes when there is no resistance from the engine turning over.

I looked under the hood while my wife turned the key. Belts were turning. I took off the oil fill cap to see if the camshaft was turning. It was. I then checked to see if I could turn the engine by hand by turning the belt. I could. I have not checked anything else since it is near freezing outside.

If the timing belt was broken I don't think the valves would be moving from the starter turning. Is there a set pin that could have sheered that connects the crank or cam gears to the crank and cam? If so, the valves would still move just at a slower pace as the gear would be slipping while the cam or crank is turning. I've encountered that before on a Chrysler. I have not did a compression test yet.

Has anyone encounter this before on a 4 cylinder Camry?

the engine in that should be a 2AZ-FE I4 possibly VVTi

at near freezing conditions ....there are other possible causes to a no start

its a timing chain ..a very reliable system if the valve train was moving .. the chain is intact


how to check compression on this engine

9. INSPECT COMPRESSION
(a) Warm up and stop engine.
(b) Disconnect the injector connectors.
(c) Remove ignition coils.
(d) Remove spark plugs.
(e) Inspect cylinder compression pressure.
(1) Insert a compression gauge into the spark plug hole.
(2) Fully open the throttle.
(3) While cranking the engine, measure the compression pressure.

should be

Compression pressure:
1.360 MPa (13.9 kgf/cm2, 198 psi)
Minimum pressure:
0.98 MPa (10 kgf/cm2, 142 psi)
Difference between each cylinder:
100 kPa (1.0 kgf/cm2, 14 psi)

NOTICE:
Always use a fully charged battery to obtain engine
speed of 250 rpm or more.
Check other cylinder’s compression pressure in the
same way.
This measurement must be done in as short a time as
possible.


(4) If the cylinder compression is low, pour a small
amount of engine oil into the cylinder through the
spark plug hole and inspect again.
HINT:
If adding oil increases the compression, it is likely that the
piston rings and/or cylinder bore are worn or damaged.
If pressure stays low, a valve may be sticking or seating
improperly, or there may be leakage past the gas

If it did that it would still have compression. It would just be out of time. Am I right with that?

it wont hurt to take off the top plastic cover and check the timing marks

turn engine clock wise

if you have compression.... and timing marks line up

the no start will be no spark or fuel delivery to the cylinders .

It won't hurt at all to take the cover off to check the timing belt. I had planned to do that. I can tell you with certainty it has no compression. I know the sound of a starter rotating a motor without compression. Also I shouldn't have been able to rotate the motor by pulling on the belt with 1 hand. I am sure there is no compression. There has been no warning to a problem either. I've worked on many older cars. I've never did anything major to a car this new though.

And thank you for your responses and the diagram. I have a feeling that will come in handy.

no worries
holla if you need more engine information

As stated the engine has a timing chain not belt. You can take the valve cover off to view the chain.

The engine is stated to be interference. Meaning if the chain breaks and the valves are in a certain position, the pistons can hit them. Suggest not to crank the engine over using the starter until you know for sure what the problem is.

A broken chain is rare, if broken check for the cause.

I intend on taking the valve cover off at 1st chance this evening or tomorrow. It is the VVTi engine. After more reading forums I think it may be one of the chain tensioners. If the chain was broken, the cam would not turn with the starter. Normally anyway. I don't know about that engine design. I can make this repair myself. I've did timing chain repairs on many older vehicles. I stay away from newer vehicles though. I don't have all the computer diagnostics for them.
Does that sound reasonable that it is a tensioner problem since the cam is still turning?

Typically if the tensioner system has a problem, which does happen. The slack in the chain allows it to hit the cover, etc. resulting in a ratting noise that you can clearly hear.

Unless some kind of catastrophic failure of the tensioner system, there should have been some advanced notice as in the rattling noise.

The VVTi device can make a rattling noise if problems but this is a different problem from the tensioner issue. As far is I know it is not linked to breaking chains or having it disengage from the sprockets but?

Your thinking is correct. A broken chain or belt will result in a higher cranking RPM do to lack of compression and you can hear this.

Chains break but it is rare and more so at only 80K miles.

Please post back with your findings.

There was no warning signs, odd sounds, nothing. It was a daily driver car. Errands around town and family vacations. I'm pretty keen on hearing noises that are not suppose to be coming from a vehicle. That's what puzzles me so much about this. I drove the car the last 2 days it was driven.
I've never heard of a timing chain breaking on a low mileage car myself. Nor have I ever heard of one malfunctioning on startup when no work had been done to it. No research I've found has said there was a problem with timing chain components on this year model car. In 2010 the 2.5L came out to replace this 2.4L engine. If what I read is accurate. But no complaints about timing on the motor.
I don't have a garage to work on it in. It is suppose to be in the teens - 30's this week. I'm not sure how much I can get done on it in the cold weather. But we desperately need this car on the road. My 1989 chevy truck isn't a good option to be doing all the driving. At least gas prices are low currently. I will post what I find out.
If anyone has any ideas before I post please feel free to tell me. I'd like to have a target area before I just take everything apart searching. Any ideas I can do research on could help me greatly.

without a garage and freezing cold temps

take out the plugs and do the compression test its the quickest way to get the numbers and your answer

from there

this forum can give you all the write ups to fix the car

if the rings have broken the motor has to come out or head off if a valve problem

a timing chain issue ... a lot of the engine bay parts ..need to be undone

Whatever I find out I'll post. I'm currently trying to find somewhere I can work on it in the heat. I can load it on my trailer to move it. Thank you for the suggestions. Any thing else comes to mind please let me know.

Suppose the chain tensioner could have failed but? This is accessed from the outside on the side of the engine and held in by a couple of nuts.

The quickest method of checking is to remove the valve cover and inspect. The cover may not have a conventional gasket but use form-in-place sealant. If your going to reinstall the cover pick some up. Auto parts stores, department store auto section, etc carry this type of sealant. Suggest Permatix Ultra Black 82180

For a working environment might drape clear plastic over the upright hood and use what you can find to make a makeshift tent. Then use a portable heat source. Have used propane and electric heat sources plus gasoline stoves but be careful. The point being to raise the air temp inside the working area into the higher teens or maybe low 40's.

See private message.

1st thing I had planned to do was remove the valve cover. I have also already thought about a makeshift shelter over it. I have a 20x30 tarp i was going to use. I can get a decent size area out of that by pushing the car closer to the house then attaching the tarp to the porch. I have 2 tubes of that sealant still in the package hanging on my building wall. I am going to try to make time this evening to take off the valve cover. I'll post what I find. It is hard with 1 vehicle. I gotta get this car back on the road or something. Thank you again for the pm with that info.

I was able to get outside today to take off the valve cover to look at the timing chain. It looked fine and had very little play. I would like to post 2 pictures but I don't know how on a forum.
I wanted to do more but when the snow turned to hail I figured I should put the cover back on and go in.
The next thing that comes to mind is the crankshaft. With the valve cover off I rotated the motor by hand to make sure all valves and lifters worked properly. Which they did. The chain looked good all the way around along with the cam gears and cams. Apparently the problem is in the bottom end. Which really disappoints me. That completely screws us up. :(

sorry to hear that ...and weather against you


quickest fix is to fit a second hand engine

a engine rebuild to do rings/pistons or valve work would take longer

any cheap hire cars in your town

Suggest before digging into the engine to check VVTi operation and cam/crank pulley alignment.

Suppose it is possible the VVTi is stuck/failed, causing valves to remain open. The system did have a problem at one time.

Rotate crank pulley CW and set to TDC for No 1 cylinder.

The passengers side of each cam pulley face should have a paint mark. These marks should now line up marks on the chain.

Then check valve clearance.

Check valve clearance on No 1 and 2 intake and 1 and 3 exhaust.

Rotate crank CW 360 degrees.

Check valve clearance on No 3 and 4 intake and No 2 and 4 exhaust.

Cold clearance
Intake 0.0075–0.0114 in
Exhaust 0.0118 – 0.0157 in

Determine if there actually is clearance and valves are not closing due a problem.

If need be I could find a used engine to drop in it. It looks like it wouldn't be to difficult to remove. Just all the damn wires and sensors. Just pulling the valve cover I had to unplug about 12 things.
Next chance i get i will try that suggestion. I didn't put it in TDC yesterday. When i rotated the motor by hand all valves looked like they where moving properly. As I was doing that the hail started. We're suppose to get 18-30in of snow this weekend. So I'm not sure when I'll be able to mess with it next. I don't think a makeshift tarp tent could hold up to that much snow.
Thanks again for help and info. The curiosity of what and why this happened is bothering me. That car has always been taken care of properly and drove sensibly. Whatever is wrong i wouldn't consider it normal wear and tear with that amount of mileage.

Losing compression overnight is unusual for this engine. The engine did have VVTi actuator problems and why suggest making sure the valves are actually fully closed at right time.

It could be the actuator failed at start up and allowed a camshaft to rotate on its one independent of the timing chain. But typically VVTi problems result in noise.

If the valves are closing OK a few other issues with this engine:

Sudden increases in oil burning caused by clogged piston oil ring return holes. If the oil is not checked every say 1500 miles can result in low crank case oil can happen.

A number of head threads for the head bolts in the block can pullout. This typically results at first in loss of coolant but who knows might lead to loss of compression if extreme. This is a fix for this problem by installing thread inserts.

Toyota does have extended warranties on both issues.

I am aware of the oil consumption problem. I change the oil every 5,000 miles. In between oil changes I'd have to add about 1 - 1 1/2 qts. I wasn't aware of the VVTi and head bolt problems. It is good weather today but with work and my daughter Dr. appt I'm not sure I'll be able to mess with it. The winter storm is going to hit tonight. I probably won't be able to mess with it for several days. But if I'm stuck at home it'll drive me nuts if I don't set up a tent and mess with it.
I need to research the VVTi and read through the info you pointed me to via pm. My wife is wanting to get another car. I'm trying to explain it's cheaper to fix this one even if it needs a motor. Rather than buy some random used car. I hate buying used vehicles I know nothing about. People are good at covering up problems in used cars.
If there is any other info you happen to think of or run across, feel free to let me know. I'm all ears on it.
This is the 1st time I've went to a forum for help. I'm surprised at the help that's been provided. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

ask as many questions as you need till you have the answers on this problem



if it helps any
closest i can find
the electrical-wiring-routing-of-toyota-camry-2AZ-fe - engine bay




you are not here yet but
If your wife wins on buying another vehicle ...suggest a toyota camry ...you know more about them these days :)

I was able to get back out there today. Enough snow finally melted and it was warm enough.
I started by checking the compression of each cylinder. From left to right- 1. 45PSI 2. 30PSI 3. 25PSI 4. 28PSI. That's very low obviously. I then put a 12in long 1/4in extension in each plug hole and turns the belt by hand. All cylinders where moving. I don't think all the rings would go bad at once without any warning. All the spark plugs looked good also. All that leads me to the valves and the VVTI crap. Which I don't know much about. Am I on the right line of thinking?

wait for toyomoho responses on those readings

1. 45PSI 2. 30PSI 3. 25PSI 4. 28PSI.
should be in the 100s I thought.....thats the dry reading

to confirm it isnt the rings do a wet reading

squirt some oil into the each of the cylinders re do compression test ... if the numbers stay the same ...... its all valves

Yea, the compression should be around 200psi I think. I will try to get to the wet test today or this weekend.

Minimum compression is 142 psi. The engine will run OK with less but not your readings.

Reference the post about checking valve clearance. Make sure the intake cam timing is not off due to VVTi assy issues. On the compression stoke all valves on the cylinder should be closed.

Will do. Not exactly sure when I'll be able to have time to. I will post the results when I get it done though. Thank you again for the suggestions and direction to go. If it is the VVTI, what does that consist of? What sensors help control it? If you know. I'm curious.

try this .............VVT means variable valve timing

if this round unit is sludged up with old oil..or is sticking ...the valve timing will be out each revolution

That actually tells me a lot. I haven't been able to do anything else yet due to rain and trying to work. Everyday I'm home and could work on it, it is raining. My kind of luck. It's suppose to be clear this weekend. I'm going to mess with it then. Weather permitting.

Thanks for posting back.

2002 to 2010 Toyota 2AZ fe engines have a lot of issues :(