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Toyota - just another BS car maker

Old 06-18-2016, 06:04 PM
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Default Toyota - just another BS car maker

I've driven lots of cars but never for too long. Way back in the days when times were great I would buy a new model and drive it for 2.5 years before changing it. Times are different now. I've had my Camry 2008 for 8 long years. I have also owned the most successful of the Toyota lineup - Camry, model 2005. It was build like a tank. Solid, reliable car. Things changed for Toyota around 07' with the redesigned Camry. Too bad they redesigned the term quality and reliability. The car feels and behaves nothing like the previous model and here is my bottom line 8 years and 90K later. Bear in mind I maintain the car better than a human and drive more carefully then a 90 year old on Parkinson medication.

- 30K - front doors lost their firm stepped movement and would swing all the way by the faintest of wind or inertia from the hand force used to open the door!
- 35K - the driver seat cushion started to squeak like there was a living thing inside. Also had this unreal feeling of something moving inside. Replaced by warranty. Dealership geniuses scratched the plastic on the side of the seat! Broke the clamp underneath the seat that keeps the fabric cover tightened!
- 40K - CD player has agenda on its own. Mostly out of order! Thank God CD died 20 years ago!
- 40K - condensation in the right headlight. Manual says "minor condensation is normal". Since when mixing water and electricity is normal, Toyota? Turned out to be a defective seal and the joint where the front plastic and the rest of the back housing meet cracked!
- 50K interior elements start to show gaps and minor deformities. Cheap plastics don't live long!
- 60K - air conditioner died! Diagnosis: cracked/punctured evaporator! Made by Denso! Never again!
- 65K - the switch responsible for the glove department light shorted! Blew up a fuse! Took it out, never looked back!
- 90K - clutch dead!!! Master and slave cylinders gone bye-bye! Made by AISIN. Cheap materials and built! Never again!

At the current rate this vehicle won't last another 50K. A well maintained and taken care of car should have no problems hitting the 500K mark. Or until the wheels just come off. This one was not a lemon. It's not bad luck either. It's just Toyota turning to be just another car maker. A dime a dozen. Newer cars are built to only last the warranty anyway but the myth of Toyota sturdiness and longevity is just that - a myth. I found out that the hard way and by seeing for myself the cheapness underneath this car is built upon! So long Toyota, you won't be missed!
Old 06-26-2016, 01:53 AM
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I'm glad my '07 is holding up better than yours! I have around 160K miles on it and I'm still on the original clutch. I've only had to replace the water pump about 25K miles ago along with the serpentine belt. Just normal wear and tear from there, tires, brakes.
So far, my oil consumption is not bad (a quart at 4K miles) and the head bolts do not seem to have separated any.
I do agree with you though. The 2AZ-FE engine is definitely one of Toyota's biggest blunders. My car is also a standard transmission. It has to be the most difficult manual transmission car that I have ever driven. The clutch point and engine revs are very specific to make smooth shifts and starts. I also thought the car would be snappier with the manual, but I don't think that is the case.
Old 03-13-2018, 02:11 AM
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I disagree. I have a 2016 Rav4, 2017RAV4, 2009 Avalon and 95 Camry and though I have put work into the 95 due to its age all run good. My friend is a salesman and buys a used Avalon at 25 K and sells it after 200 K and starts over. At 200 K still fine. I think you just got a lemon. My dad had a car earlier in my life, a Nova, and everything under the sun went wrong with it while other owners had no issues. We got rid of it.
Old 03-22-2018, 07:37 AM
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Glendale, Arizona
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Clutch life is strictly determined by the driver. If driven properly, a clutch can last all but indefinitely. If a person constantly rides the clutch, I've seen them wear out and start slipping in less than 30,000 miles. No manufacturer can build a clutch that will last with a bad driver. And sadly as time goes on, fewer drivers are brought up knowing how to properly drive a standard transmission vehicle.
Old 08-10-2018, 08:10 AM
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i also disagree. Me and other members of my family have been driving toyotas for as long as I can remember. My mom had 3 different four runners now my dad had a camry wagon for basically my entire childhood, I have a 97 camry and a 2017 corolla and love both of them. I think you just got a bad apple in the bunch.
Old 08-12-2018, 12:25 PM
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You should get rid of it ASAP. You should treat yourself to a Ford or Chevy. Better yet, a Chrysler/Fiat. Get the car you DESERVE.
Old 11-18-2018, 06:50 PM
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By Hobart Rowen
December 23, 1993
On a reporting assignment to Japan some 20 years ago, I learned from a Japanese engineer one of the secrets of that country's amazing success in penetrating Western markets. Japanese achieve quality, he said, not by an inspection system that spots the defects on an assembly line but by a concerted effort to "get it right the first time."

That lesson was taught the receptive Japanese in 1950 by a then little-known American business management expert, W. Edwards Deming, who died this week in Washington at age 93. Until 10 days before his death, Deming was still conducting seminars for American companies, belatedly eager for his advice.

Corporate America, after World War II, told Deming to get lost -- and he did, in Japan.

Deming advised the Japanese, who sought him out, not to copy the American-style inspection system but to incorporate quality control principles into the manufacturing process. He was in the vanguard of American production experts whose advice had been rejected by American managers because they bluntly told businessmen that poor quality products resulted mostly from their own failures, not from worker ineptness.

"Anything made in America {in the 1920s} was top quality," Deming told members of Congress two years ago, when he had reached his 91st birthday, as active and sharp-minded as ever.

"Anywhere in the world, if you knew the shopkeeper, he might reach under the counter and get an American product for you," he said. In that era, America mass-produced and sold 50 percent or more of the manufactured goods entering global markets.

But then American industry got lazy and rested on its laurels. It rejected the notion that industry should pay attention to what consumers wanted to buy, or that consumers would foot the bill for high-quality products. Especially, American executives scoffed at the foolish idea that any other country, especially Japan, which had a post-World War II record of producing shoddy goods, could compete.

Japanese companies, however, were all ears. When Deming first arrived in Tokyo, the top men in the companies didn't send just their engineers for an eight-day seminar -- they came themselves.

The Japanese were also greatly influenced by another American management expert, Joseph M. Juran, who went to Japan in 1954. In a recent Harvard Business Review article, Juran says that Japan would have achieved world quality leadership without his and Deming's advice, but "we did provide them a jump start, without which ... the job might have taken longer, but they would still be ahead of the United States in the quality revolution."

In June 1951, less than a year after Deming's first lecture on quality control, Japan instituted the Deming Prize for industrial achievement. It then took 30 years, until 1981, before an equivalent American incentive, named for the late Secretary of Commerce Malcolm Baldrige, was established to encourage higher American quality.

The same year, the Ford Motor Co. hired Deming in a desperate attempt to stem the flow of huge losses. Ford soon adopted its well-known slogan, "Quality Is Job One," and not only moved back into profitability but has also taken the industry lead away from General Motors.

Yet, the full meaning of Deming's wisdom hasn't been absorbed in America: It is delusionary to blame America's trade deficits with Japan or any other country mostly on their "unfair" trade practices. To be sure, the Japanese have at times been protectionist and have blocked entry of foreign goods while protecting their own industries. But their success has been linked to product quality.

American manufacturers have been their own worst enemies. President Clinton made this point in his basic trade policy speech at American University early this year. Deming believed, and he was right, that American managers must take the responsibility for control of quality and for boosting productivity.

Lots of progress has been made in recent years, but not enough. Protectionist sentiment is far from dead, as we learned during the bitter battles over NAFTA and GATT. In the case of NAFTA, it was organized labor that looked for protection against competition; in the GATT round, some sectors of the business community feared to test the quality of their products against all comers.

Deming was not an optimist: He believed that most American managers are too stubborn to make the necessary changes. "Who do you think will be ahead five years from now?" he asked at that 1991 meeting on the Hill. "Knowledge crosses borders without visas, and there is no substitute for knowledge.

Trucks I am a little different on.

I also have a Chevy Suburban 5.3 L and love it 2003 but they did go on the cheap on somethings which I repaired. Never had an engine or 4x4 problem. Just addressing rust but I live in saltland, il. Oh it has a frame. FYI - No frame can't call it a truck otherwise you are driving an accordian. Also huge recall on rusted Japanese trucks.

Ford - Bring back quality is number one.

Chevy - Don't talk about your accolades just talk about quality.

You are making descent trucks and can see what is in the boneyard and hard to find a suburban.
Old 04-26-2019, 05:10 PM
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2010 Camry. 233,000. it used brakes more than my other cars. I did one water pump and one belt tensioner. I also did a stabilizer bushing in the rear. The CD player quit about 140K. Aside from some weird check engine lights when the roads were slushy, it was pretty reliable. We had some good friends though that had an 09. POS. They got rid of it around 80k because of to many problems. Might just be the luck of the draw like any other car but I felt like this was our most reliable car to date.
Old 04-28-2019, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dale Michael View Post
2010 Camry. 233,000. it used brakes more than my other cars. I did one water pump and one belt tensioner. I also did a stabilizer bushing in the rear. The CD player quit about 140K. Aside from some weird check engine lights when the roads were slushy, it was pretty reliable. We had some good friends though that had an 09. POS. They got rid of it around 80k because of to many problems. Might just be the luck of the draw like any other car but I felt like this was our most reliable car to date.
I boils down to the quality of the car and the maintenance. You can have a great car but if you do not maintain it your sunk no matter what car.
Just bought a 2004 Toyota Camry 156000 for my kids to use at college. One owner (good), all receipts and maintained at the same dealer I bought my new Rav4 so I know they have quality work, proof of all work, little rust, and regular maintenance per dealer. Car fax backs up receipts though Carfax I consider an OK check. Have been driving it for weeks with no issues. For this one I got lucky. This person took very good care of their car.

I tried used cars through Craigslits list , dealers , etc. Some scammers and switch and bait. Do not want to buy a used car again unless it is through someone I know, Cost was 4K and I did not negotiate. Car was listed for 18 hrs.

Last edited by wdc123; 04-28-2019 at 01:13 PM.
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