nodrogkam, YOU asked me to support my claim of no HP gain. I accepted by allowing you to see if K&N showed HP gain for your vehicle. I guess you didn't bother to check so as a response to your request I searched your car on the K&N website. Guess what, they show NO HP gain with the drop-in. I also inputed my 2.2 4 cyl. into the K&N HP gain section - also NO gain in HP. As to the other claims about K&N I refer you and anyone else to this link where actual comparison testing was done.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

I hope I have settled this remark.

 

oh but i did check, how else would i have come up with the statement that their site doesnt show hp figures for all cars since its impossible for them to personally dyno each and every single application due to the range of applications their filters work with.
They dont cite that we will gain no hp, they didnt even site anything about hp when it comes to the filter.
Thats why i was searching for information in regards to someone with a camry who did a dyno w/oem vs K&N but to no avail. Maybe you'll have better luck and share that information with us too.

ah bobtheoil guy. See now you've provided finally providedsome support and therefore you have for the most part settled that assertion of mine.
They should make bob the air guy. haha

After looking through the website you have so graciously provided us all, the conclusion is simply for normal street performing cars (although some street legal cars are now very high performance vehicles), the use of oem paper filters will keep the engine breathing cleaner and performance compared to higher flow filters is not noticible. Foam seems to be the worst (i will agree to that...i had an AMSOIL Foam filter and that was pretty much junk due to the crap i saw in my TB after usage), then the K&N types, and the best is paper.
So if you keep checking the paper filters and replacing them either before or at the recommended intervals u'll be good to go.

One last note though, i must say that i kind of prefer the idea of washable and re-usable filters that can last the lifetime of a vehicle. Its not a matter of saving money or even time,since the recharge kits aren't usually on sale and aren't cheap, but it isa matter of adding a lot more waste into our already full landfills.

 

I just went through the links K&N provides:[align=center]K&N Power Gain Search by Vehicle
Find estimated power gains of vehicles with K&N intake kit installed.[/align][align=center][/align]Now you see they say, "intake kit" that's because on some applications with a cone filter AND a customintake there are some minimal HP gains. But that's NOT because of the great free flowing filter, it's because of the improved laminar flow characteristics of the smooth intake. Andon those applications with minimal HP gain you will notice from theHPchart that HP gain occures in a very narrow band in the upper end of theRPM curve. Hardlyin the usefuleveryday working range of a daily driver. But the implication that K&Nwants to make is that even their drop-in filters produce HP gain. Surely if they could show it they would. Anyone buying K&N drop-in for HP gain is going to be realisticallydisapponted if not perceptually happy.

I've never seen a butt dyno feel anything but increased HP.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I wonderwhere all those disgarded, non-biogradable,oil soakedK&N's end up? Ever think about theenergy cost and CO2production of all that re-fill oil along withits plastic containers being thrown into landfills?

 

ur last point is very valid and i was thinking about that when i typed my response.
same deal with hybrid vehicles (that should have used LiIon in the first place...). Obviously there is no good counter arguement here.

 

When the air fuel ratio feedback is stable after the engine is at operating temperature and the fuel trim has reached its limit of correction to the rich side. (2 trip logic).
Feedback from the HO 2 sensor influences short-term fuel trim and short-term fuel trim influences long trim fuel trim. Short-term values are temporary and not stored when the ignition key is turned off. Long-term values are stored in memory because they are part of the basic injection duration. Long term values affect injection duration in closed and open loop because they are used to calculate basic injection duration. It is important to remember that the actual fuel trim will be the opposite of the DTC. Putting in a more freely flowing filter orincreasing the air flowmaking the system too lean, (DTC P0171) will cause the the ECM to make a + or rich correction.Therefore triggering a p1133. (A/F Sensor Circuit Response Malfunction)

Like Nodrogkam said, reset your ecu after you put in your k&n.

P.S. Info compiled from other forums.

 

quote:ORIGINAL: Psihigh
.....Putting in a more freely flowing filter orincreasing the air flowmaking the system too lean,...../quote]

What is "increasing theair flow", demand from the engine or the filter? Are you saying that the stock filter on a stock engine is restrictive enough to cause the fuel management system to lean out the fuel to maintainthe 14:1 ratio? If that is the case then putting on a freer flowing (not freely flowing) filter (K&N or like)WOULD increase HP as the engine would take in more air with more fuel and still maintain the stoichiometric ratio.

 

mmm .. well am not a tech guy but i remeber when i installed K&N filter to my 1990 Mustang i felt a bit change in the performance of the car even my 1990 Camaro & 2001 Civic.

i guess its no HP or fuel economy or what ever ,,, its a matter of self satisfaction no matter what the cost is

 

camry313, I looked up your vehicles on the K&N web site. The Mustang V8 showed about a 6hp gain at about 4700rpm with the cone filter replacing the stock box. Both the stock and K&N filters show a drop off in HP after about 4700 rpm, which I would assume is the peak HP for that engine. No increase was shown for the 6 cylinder. The Camaro showed no HP increase for all engines. The Civic showed HP increases of about 5HP with only the custom intake, not the drop-in. In fact I have not seen any listed HP increase for drop-in filters. The "i felt a bit change in performance" is quite suspect. I've talked to guys who have changed out perfectly good plugs for "performance" V-groove and claimed they had a "performance increase". It is a matter of "self satisfaction" or maybe self delusion, but at least people should not try to fool themselves, or let themselves be fooled with a result that just isn't there.

 

mostly mental. what i believe isnt mental is the increased sensitivity and throttle response right off the line due to the less restrictive airflow.
lol its funny we're all still discussing this when we should all be making a trip out to the dyno centers of america!

 

ok now ... lets stop this war ... every 1 has his own opinion supported by proof ... we r here to share the info & 2 discuss it, 2 benefit, & 2 have fun.
at the end evry 1 has his own decission.

pedro, i realy respect ur knowlage in this field, u 2 nodrogkam, & all members 2.

cool it off guys & all the best 2 all