Hello all,

I'm basically going to copy info I posted in ToyotaNation. I figured that I should get even more opinions and want to see if anyone has anything different to suggest.

For you guys I have a brand new video of every starting problem my car has or had and the repairs it has undergone in the past year.

YouTube - 2000 Camry LE 2.2L 4cyl Starting Problems. HELP!

Here's my original post from ToyotaNation last November. Also here's a link to the whole thread if anyone wants to look: http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=364692

"Hello all. My Camry LE has been nothing but trouble since last May. Tonight I have had it up to here, and need any advice I can get, because neither Toyota or my local mechanic have been able to target the problem. I'll give a time line of sorts:

Background: Ever since I took ownership of the car in 2008, I noticed that it had a few quirks. One of them was if I left it sitting for awhile and the weather got hotter or more humid, the car would crank for maybe a second and jump to 500RPM and when I released my hand from the key it would fire up normally. I swear it was like a jackrabbit wanting to take off. You could barely hear it crank before it fired. I actually thought it was kind of cool until I started having real problems.

The other quirk it has is a loud ticking noise it sometimes makes when idling if it's really cold outside. It only happens when the engine's all warm and it's idling at 500 where it's supposed to. The noise sounds like it's coming from somewhere on the passenger side of the enginebay. It never really bothered me until now, so more on this later.

May 2010 - Started experiencing cold starting problems if the car was left for more than 8 hrs. Car would crank, fire up to about 300-400RPM, but not hold idle. Usually took 2 or 3 tries a piece. The cranking sounds pretty nasty when this happens kind of like a baby screaming for its mother. Comical, but that's how I can describe it. I knew it was probably the IAC, so I went ahead and got it replaced. No luck. This problem happens when the car sits through varying temperatures. I did further reading and suspected moisture on the distributor cap but nothing has been done with that.

June through August 2010 - Took it back a number of times. Work done included cleaning the throttle body and IAC a few more times, replacing the PCV valve, and inspecting the valve cover to inconclusive results. Toyota insisted that they started it as directed and did not encounter any problems, yet when I started it in the parking lot of the service center, it went ballistic again.

With the hot weather, more symptoms developed. On top of the cold starting issue, other times it would just sputter for 5 or 6 seconds then the idle would smooth out. When cranked, it would fire but you could see the needle fluctuate then eventually go up to around 1100 where it's supposed to be.

When it started to get cooler around September, symptoms diminished, occurring only sporadically.

Now that we've had a few frigid nights, the ticking has come back but louder than ever. Also when starting in the morning it sounds like the engine is straining for the first 20 seconds of idling. Mechanic adjusted the timingbelt to hopefully resolve the ticking but this was unsuccessful. I didn't even bother asking about the straining noise.

Thanksgiving break has passed, and my cold starting symptoms have resurfaced and now they are even worse. I haven't been as active so the car has been sitting for longer periods for the past few days but tonight was the worst. I knew I was going to have problems so I got it started eventually and drove it in order to give it a kick in the behind.

So that's my overly long description of what is going on. If more history helps, yes the car has been maintained properly according to the sludge recall. It has not been through anything crazy, just a lot of commuting before I took ownership (father drove it 100miles a day before passing it down to me with 140,000. it now has 160,000)

If I need to clarify anything, I will gladly do so. I need advice ASAP on the starting problem and the ticking noise, but most importantly the starting problem! Thanks."

Since that incident in November I had my ECT sensor replaced and I thought it did the trick but as of recently the car still acts up if I leave it sitting for awhile.

Help?

 

Greetings:

TN members are typically very good at solving problems.


A few questions:

You stated you replaced the IAC and PCV valves and cleaned the throttle body, correct?

Did you father own the car since new? If so what has been replaced on the car such as spark plugs, ign wires, timing belt, etc?

Did your father ever have any staring issues with the car?

Other then the starting issue does the engine otherwise operate normally? Good power, does not miss, etc.

Has the MPG changed, perhaps dropped?

Has the check engine light ever come on?

The screaming baby, is this the whine heard in the video after the engine is started?

You state the problem is worse in the hot, humid summer, how hot is this temperature wise?

How cold in the winter, temperature wise?

When the oil leaked into the spark plugs wires did this do any damage to them?

In theory the engine should crank over a bit then start. Typically idle RPM is something like 650-750. 500 is too low. If the engine is cold as in the winter the RPM is supposed to ramp up to something like 1500 then drop down. Is this what happens in a normal start?

You state the problems occur if the car sits for 8 hrs or more. Is this regardless of the the outside air temperature? As in same issue summer or winter if the engine sits for 8 hours or more.

If the engine is restarted within say 8 hours does it start normally?

Has anyone ever looked the spark plugs when removed for condition? Sometimes looking at the electrode can indicate problem areas.

Has the mechanic ever taken fuel pressure readings or done any work on the fuel system?

I assume the car had ongoing maintenance such as air filter changes, etc?

In the years since you owned the car did the car ever need to have an emissions test prior to license tab renewal and if so did it pass?

Did you ever try the procedure using stethoscope? A section of tubing or hose can be also be used with good success. Move the end of the hose around the engine and trans engine hot and cold.

In addition to listening over the complete engine and transmission take additional note of any sounds that may be coming from these these areas:

Timing cover.

Fuel injectors. These are in back of the timing cover.

Passengers side of engine where the plastic timing belt cover is.

Alternator, both at the belt pulley area and on the main body.

Ditto for the AC compressor.

Turn the steering wheel and listen for any changes in noises, whines, etc.

Please provide the answers to these questions and do the stethoscope noise check (it really does work well) then reply back.

 

It's rainy today so I will hold off on the stethoscope exam for another day. I am assuming I will be using a mechanic stethoscope. For now I'll answer your questions. Thank you for your time in replying. At the bottom of the post I have also attached the complete repair history under my father's/my ownership.

You stated you replaced the IAC and PCV valves and cleaned the throttle body, correct?

Correct.

Did you father own the car since new? If so what has been replaced on the car such as spark plugs, ign wires, timing belt, etc?

No. He bought it when it was 3 years old. Maintenance has been followed very carefully. All of those items mentioned were replaced at 100K. Car now has 164K

Did your father ever have any staring issues with the car?

Not at all. Although he was never in tune with the car as much as I am but he claims he has never had anything happen.

Other then the starting issue does the engine otherwise operate normally? Good power, does not miss, etc.

For the most part. Sometimes it will idle a little low (around 450RPM) after completely warming up but this happens sporadically and the idle smooths out after 2 or three traffic lights to 500RPM. I suspect this is just the ECU recalibrating. A

Has the MPG changed, perhaps dropped?

MPG is good and hasn't really fluctuated. I get poorer MPG in the colder weather but this is normal I think? I get 375 miles to a tank with stop and go driving to school, work and other places and over 400 miles to a tank if some highway driving is mixed in. It does really well on the highway.

Has the check engine light ever come on?

Only because my mechanic disconnected me EGR valve at one point to see if symptoms improved. Otherwise never.

The screaming baby, is this the whine heard in the video after the engine is started?

No, that's how it always sounds when the engine is cold lol. I'm talking about the cranking noise starting at 0:16ish in video. Notice it makes a different sound like it's messing up somewhere and subsequently you can see that the engine did not catch. Listen to the way it cranks during the first second and then listen for the change in that sound. This is what I am referring to.

You state the problem is worse in the hot, humid summer, how hot is this temperature wise?

Hmm... here in NJ last summer it was consistently mid 80s to mid 90s

How cold in the winter, temperature wise?

From that one video I put in that compilation on January 24th, it was 5 degrees F. That was the coldest it got, but consistently it was in the 20s and 30s.

When the oil leaked into the spark plugs wires did this do any damage to them?

Yes, but they were replaced. (You're referring to the leaking valve cover gasket I had back in 2009 right?)

In theory the engine should crank over a bit then start. Typically idle RPM is something like 650-750. 500 is too low. If the engine is cold as in the winter the RPM is supposed to ramp up to something like 1500 then drop down. Is this what happens in a normal start?

I always thought 500 was too low, but I read that spec idle for a warm 2000 engine was 500. As far as the cold start idle, before the work was done last May, I'd get a strong fire up to about 1500RPM, but after it only went to about 1200 on cold days and less on hot days. You can see that it strains on colder days from dropping down so low.

You state the problems occur if the car sits for 8 hrs or more. Is this regardless of the the outside air temperature? As in same issue summer or winter if the engine sits for 8 hours or more.

Different problems occur with different temperatures as depicted in the video, but no matter what if I leave it sitting something always happens.

If the engine is restarted within say 8 hours does it start normally?

Yes! Cranks fine. Warm starts are flawless and say I leave it sitting for maybe an hour, it starts perfect.

Has anyone ever looked the spark plugs when removed for condition? Sometimes looking at the electrode can indicate problem areas.

I cannot recall. The valve cover gasket was replaced in 2009 way before all these problems started. I could always have them checked again though.

Has the mechanic ever taken fuel pressure readings or done any work on the fuel system?

No, he claims that this is not the problem, but I will suggest it again.

I assume the car had ongoing maintenance such as air filter changes, etc?

Absolutely. Been very consistent with that.

In the years since you owned the car did the car ever need to have an emissions test prior to license tab renewal and if so did it pass?

Always has passed emissions.

Did you ever try the procedure using stethoscope? A section of tubing or hose can be also be used with good success. Move the end of the hose around the engine and trans engine hot and cold.

No. Will look into this. Maybe doing this will shed some light on the ticking noise when the engine is all the way warm and the air temp is cold. The problem with the ticking noise is it only occurs in drive, not park or neutral, so examining the engine during that condition would be difficult. My main concern is the starting, however.

 

I can't hear the clunk in the video.

You can use a section of hose, garden hose, rubber hose, etc. You don't need a mechanics stethoscope.

I don't have a method to unzip files.

It could be the fuel pressure is bleeding down or not building up fast enough. The fact the engine starts OK before 8 hours but something happens after 8 hours regardless of temperature gives perhaps a hint as to what is going on.

If my car I might wait overnight then prior to starting the engine jump the fuel pump to power it and prime the system prior to starting. Do this over a period of time and determine if the problem goes away, changes, etc.

The dealer would do the same thing but turn the pump on via their diagnostic tester that plugs into the cars wiring, then check pressures with a gauge that has been plumbed into the fuel system.

Out of curiosity what has your mechanic suggested is wrong.

 

Does that involve turning the key to "on" and waiting for the 5 beeps? If so I do this every morning.

My mechanic has no clue and neither does Toyota. Last May he told me "the only thing I can think of is the IAC" and replaced it. When I brought it back to him the number of times after he said "Let's try replacing the PCV valve" and "Let's try replacing the ECT sensor."

 

No, the pump will not run unless the engine is being started or is now running.

The ECT sensor can be the cause of many strange problems. The engine uses the sensor to determine if the coolant (engine) is hot or cold.

When the engine if off, there is still fuel pressure in the line. If somehow this bleeds off to zero or when cranking does not build up to what it is supposed to be, the injectors will operate with less fuel pressure. Less fuel pressure can cause staring issues.

It is just a guess based on your statements the problem occurs after 8 hours in hot or cold weather. Sometimes engines have issues with cold starts. If this was the case the engine would cool down faster in cold weather and have a problem sooner then 8 hours. In summer it would take longer for the problem to occur. Yet it is always after 8 hours.

 

Ironically I have more problems in hotter weather. Usually it has to it for 3 or 4 days to really cause problems when it's cold out but the 8 hr rule still applies sometimes. I really never know if it's going to have trouble every morning. It's a guessing game, but usually I can make good predictions.

The ECT sensor was replaced and I was so certain that it was the fix. When I bring it in for the oil change I'll mention what you said above.

I did the hose test and didn't find anything that jumped out at me.