Hello forum,

Hoping you can help out with a long running problem with my Camry. I've had this problem since 2015 and have thrown a lot of money at it to try and resolve it, but no luck so far.

The original problem was in 2015 was this:

When it's cold, it's fine, no problems. It shifts smoothly, it's a pleasure to drive. When it's hot, it's a different story.

When pulling away with very light acceleration, or when using the barest amount of right foot to maintain a speed between 40 and 55mph, there is a noticeable surge in power. The RPMs stay constant, but the power fades and returns very quickly. It is not dissimilar to someone dipping the clutch in a manual car. When pulling away from standing, this problem is exacerbated if I am turning. I have noticed that often, the RPMs are around 1500. I have tested this throughout the speed range and it can also be replicated at 80mph.

I have also noticed that there is a loss of power sometimes - not a sudden loss, but I will notice it when I need to accelerate on the motorway and have to force it to shift down hard before it will pick up speed. So I have had to be creative with my use of the O/D button to get the power out of it. Which I don't think I should have to do with a 3 litre V6!

Last problem is I think something that's more by design than a specific problem. If I'm in very slow traffic, the transmission will quickly shift to second gear at walking pace. If the traffic suddenly picks up speed, I have to use what I think is a disproportionate amount of right foot to force it to shift down, otherwise the acceleration is almost entirely lacking. It will eventually pick up speed but takes longer than I would like. And when I do put my foot down, it feels like it lurches through a gear change before it takes off.

Numerous garages, transmission specialists and workshops (including Toyota) have looked at this but no one has been able to find the problem. In an attempt to resolve the problem, I have:

- replaced the transmission with one with (reportedly) 27,000 miles on it - this got rid of most of the problems above
- replaced the torque convertor with the one that came with the replacement trans
- power steering pump reconditioned with some pipework replaced, fluid reservoir cleaned and fresh fluid supplied (it was leaking, dealer wouldn't work on the car unless this was fixed)
- EGR valve removed, cleaned and lubricated
- both outer CV joints replaced
- alternator replaced (not related, it just happened to fail)
- air con compressor replaced (not related, it just happened to fail)
- routine servicing including transmission fluid
- all four tyres replaced and balanced
- all brake pads and discs replaced
- four wheel geometry / alignment carried out
- all engine and gearbox mounts replaced
- all anti-roll bar links replaced
- exhaust fully replaced with stainless system from manifold cats back
- cleaned air intake flow sensor/meter
- cleaned air intake valve assembly

The current situation is this:

The car now has around 240,000 miles on it. Original engine.

From 35 mph to 45mph (sometimes to 50), I still have a wobble/vibration/judder. I can replicate it on demand; get to about 40-45mph, and let off the accelerator, applying just enough to maintain the speed. It'll judder all day long. Put my foot down to accelerate faster and it goes away. Take my foot off completely and it goes away. And if the road starts to go up hill and I don't apply any extra acceleration, it will start to judder worse for about a second before either slowing down or shifting up a gear, both of which make it go away. Sometimes, very occasionally, I'll feel it when it changes up through the gears, usually 3-4 but sometimes 2-3.

Of all the work listed, the only thing that made a difference was changing the engine mounts and having the exhaust fitted - they were done at about the same time and made the problem worse! I guess the excessive vibrations caused by this problem put extra load on the engine mounts; all of them were quite badly worn out.

With new, firm engine mounts, new tyres, suspension parts replaced and geometry set up correctly, the car drives like a dream. Handling has been transformed and with the exhaust, the average MPG has gone up a little bit - bonus! The main dealer also gave the car a check over and OK'd the coil packs and spark plugs. No fault codes stored anywhere either.

In addition, the new exhaust has killed the engine power at motorway (I'm in the UK) speeds - it's gutless. This is a problem I'm taking up with the exhaust supplier, and I don't think it's related to the wobble/vibration.

After doing a LOT of reading up on this, I've reached the conclusion that I'm looking at a fault with one or more of the following:

- air flow valve assembly
- air intake flow sensor
- egr valve
- torque convertor
- gearbox

The gearbox was supposed to only have 27000 miles on it, and it doesn't show any other signs of wear that I can determine. The torque convertor was supplied with the box. I am wondering if the torque convertor is potentially at fault here - damaged or worn internal parts causing slipping when it goes to lock up at lower RPMs!

I would very much appreciate the forum's help on this as I cannot believe I'm still dealing with a five year old problem!

Thanks!

 

A lot of info here.

How long have you owned the car and did it ever operate OK?

With all the repairs are you now satisfied with the transmission operation?

What is a judder? Chassis vibrates, steering wheel shakes brake pedal vibrates, etc. If a shutter then would be looking at the torque converter.

Watch the engine RPM and compare to the MPH. If the converter is slipping the RPM will increase but the MPH not just like a slipping manual transmission clutch.

Have you researched the cars trans model to find common complaints The trans model should be on a sticker on the side of the drivers side door. Toyota has had complaints of trans operational issues.

 

Had the car since 2014. It was ok for a while but it came on so gradually that I couldn't give a date when it started. Gearbox was changed mid 2017 and it had been acting up for probably a year prior.

It shifts up and down through the gears, kicks down fine, shifts between directions without any clunks and knocks.

I actually feel it through the seat and the body of the car most. Not through the pedals or wheel. If it's the converter then it's slipping so little that it doesn't seem to be affecting the RPMs. However, datalogging off of the ECU might be a good idea to confirm or deny this. It does feel very much like a drivetrain issue - I've had plenty of cars that have wheel alignment/balance/brake/tyre issues that I can usually tell the difference and this doesn't feel like any of those.

I've spent *years* researching this. :-\ I'm aware of the newer Camry issues and the various recalls / service updates that have been issued but there seems to be very little out there for this generation or the previous generation beyond a handful of seemingly isolated reports on owners forums.

 

You have pretty much ran the list of things that could do wrong.

Are you stating that there is an actual power loss or that you feel something that may be a power loss?

You could turn off some of the suspected items and determine if this makes a difference.

Air flow valve assembly - This engine may have a valve setup that changes the length of the air intake runner. Here you could take measures to turn the system off or lock the valve from moving.

EGR valve - This system can be turned off by disconnected the vacuum hose the activates it.

Other.

Air intake flow sensor - The ODB reader can output real time for the MAF signal and if it is varying when it should be stable.

Torque convertor - My first thought but you changed it

Gearbox - Doubt this is the issue. When you did a trans drain was there any metal debris in the oil?

Since you spent so much time suggest you look into getting an ODBII data logger. Set this up to record data while you drive then set time stamp the beginning and end of the problem as you drive to the ODB data. There are plug in types ans software for laptops and cell phones. If going this route suggest you visit auto website forums having specific groups or sections for this type of thing as some products will better then others.

 

Well. Unfortunately, I no longer need to troubleshoot this. Car was involved in an accident and the insurance has written it off. (Someone pulled out across my lane at a cross roads where I had right of way). I'm waiting to see what the insurance will do, but they've already said they're going to write it off. Unsure if I'm going to try and buy it back; it's not repairable but it has a lot of good parts including a near immaculate interior. Thanks for your help, @toyomoho .

 

Sorry to hear about your car. At least you didn't get injured.

Might do your own estimate of its worth to compare with insurance.

Today, used car prices can be up there making finding a replacement at a reasonable cost a challenge.

Could find a car with a blown engine or such for cheap and swap parts. Suggest you stick with the V-6 which is the better engine. The basic 4 and 6 cylinder cars are the same but if you put a 6 into a 4 cylinder the wiring harness will also need to be changed.

 

The insurance have classed it as "Cat B", which means it must be crushed, but some parts can be removed prior. Knowing the scrap industry in this country, because it's old it'll probably get crushed whole, with the thousands of pounds of new parts still on it. What a f*ing waste.

Even if I was allowed to keep it or buy it back, Camrys over here in the UK are extremely rare; they are nowhere near as common as they are in the States, so finding one for spares/repairs would be pretty much impossible. At the time of writing this, there are only a couple on eBay and Gumtree, across the entire country. The insurance would also put a serious premium on a non-standard engine swap, even if the engine was available in the model range - just not worth it unfortunately.